Response to FAA NPRM for Remote ID

Damon Darnall (00:00):

Hey, in this episode, we’re going to talk about remote ID NPRM and what it’s all about, what you need to know, and what you need to do. So stay tuned. Hi, I’m Damon known as the drone boss. I’ve been flying drones commercially for over 25 years. I help drone entrepreneurs all over the world, grow faster, go further, and create more profit in their business. Now I’ve got a real treat for you today. We’ve got three superstars with the sky network, which is the largest network of professional drone entrepreneurs in the world. Now these drone business owners are out in the real world every day, making real money with their drones. So let’s welcome Greg White, Erik Wilhelmsson with Aviated Precision and Bobby Mims with Diamond Air Drones. Let’s dig into this.

Damon Darnall (00:53):

So I guess we’ve got a couple of things to discuss here, but one of the first things is, I think we should kind of touch on, and share with everybody, what is the remote ID? And you know, basically what this is, it’s an electronic license plate in the sky. And the idea is that we can safely track and, and see where the drones are, just like we can with aircraft and air traffic control. And as we get more drones in the airspace, it’s something that’s necessary. I’m all for it, but I’m not for the way that this NPRM is written. And there’s some, in my opinion, major flaws. So what do you guys think about that?

Greg White (01:34):

I agree a hundred percent, you know l heard that the whole aviation industry is transitioning to this kind of system. Aviation uses broadcast ID in aircraft for ATC to know where they are and transmit data. That is not different in the drone industry. We definitely need to be using a remote ID system to broadcast, to government officials, to you know, law enforcement. People need to know those things. There’s nothing wrong with holding our community accountable. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there is a lot wrong, I think, with the rule, the way it’s written now. I agree that we can do better.

Bobby Mims (02:13):

Yeah! 100%! And with you all as well, coming from a public safety background, I understand the need of having something like this to help our law enforcement and our Homeland Security and security efforts. But I also believe that there are ways with the technology that we have already, to help reduce the negative impact that this would have on drone entrepreneurs, drone, and pilots business owners in this industry. So I think it’s imperative for all of us to take the opportunity that we have to make our voices be heard so that the government during this period, can understand what a respectful, well guided, well thought out, strategy should be to help guide our government into making better choices so that it doesn’t have a negative impact on us, that have a huge expense for them, or possible huge expense for us. 

Erik Wilhelmsson (03:14):

So can you guys elaborate a little bit more on how it actually affects business, you know, drone entrepeneurs, and, you know, across the country, what are the repercussions and like, what does it actually mean to the commercial sector for drones?

Bobby Mims (03:28):

I’ll start if you don’t mind. So one of the biggest impacts that I see with this proposed rule with drone businesses and drone pilots is if you were to fly under the standard remote ID proposal, it would require you to have a membership or a subscription with a third party industry, a third party company that would be taking the information and being able to process it and put it through. So this would require you to have some type of monthly subscription, which the FAA defines that they propose, or they assume that it would only be $2 and 50 cents a month up to $30 annually. But this is just an assumption on their part, because this technology has not been developed. It has not been tested, and it has not been perfected. So if you think about a business that has to go through research and development of a new process of information, data collection, data security, all these things, it can create a huge expense and a business is not going to do this unless they think they can get a big return on their investment. Who do you think is going to pay for that? The drone pilots, the drone business people. On top of the other impact that the FAA does not discuss is, that we as drone pilots or drone business people, will have to pay for the data, whether it’s through cell phone service or internet service. And that’s an unknown that the FAA doesn’t even address as to what that data expense will be for us in uploading the required information to this, our ID.

Damon Darnall (05:19):

Yeah, that’s a great point, Bobby. And one of the things you guys can read for yourself, it’s on page two, 10 of the NPRM. But the other thing too, where they’re calculating this, is they’re basing it on the 8 million plus drones that have been sold in the U.S. assuming that every single drone is going to pay for this piece of this subscription. And it’s just simply not the case, you know, that’s going to be a small fraction of that. So that number is, as you alluded to, first of all, we have no idea what it’s going to cost. Typically, everything is always much more than when people think a perfect example in our industry with drones is. Look at all these startups. You know, like the Lily drone was probably one of the biggest ones that was a kind of the biggest  failure.

Damon Darnall (06:00):

This was a great marketing campaign to come up with this great drone. They raised $30 million. And I’m sure the developers thought if we could just get a million dollars, which I think was their initial stretch goal, then we could build anything. And then they got in there and started building it. And then it turns out 30 million wasn’t even enough, you know, I had to go bankrupt. So the same thing as it starts to grow, the challenge is if we go with this internet based system, then everything is going to come back to us as, you know, as the commercial drone operators. And we’re going to bear the burden of this cost and bear the burden not of the 8 million drones that are out there, but however many we actually end up with that are operating commercially. Now, the good thing about this is that as regulation moves forward, we’re going to weed out the people who aren’t committed, the nonprofessional people. So as far as the industry itself, it’s going to be beneficial, but this proposal, the way it is, I think it just has too many flaws and there are better solutions, you know, which we’ll be talking about here shortly.

Greg White (07:05):

I think it might be a good idea for the listeners just to back up just a little bit and explain a little bit about what remote ID is, you know, what it is, what are the laws, you know, that they’re proposing to us and how does it affect us? You know, what are they talking about? You know, what is remote ID? So just keep in mind that this is a law that’s being proposed, that is for aircraft over 0.5, five towns, right. And just also there’s going to be different types of remote IDs. There’s going to be standard remote ID, which will have broadcast and internet capability. And there’s going to be limited remote ID, which would just have internet based remote ID. 

Damon Darnall (07:51):

I will pull those up for you, Greg. So, we’ve got an actual visual there, so here’s kind of how it looks and how the breakdown is. Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you.

Greg White (08:01):

Oh, please. Yeah, go ahead. You can take this over. That’s a great graphic. I wanted to kind of explain that to everybody.

Damon Darnall (08:09):

Yeah. And basically what they’re proposing here is the three ways of identification we’ve got, as Greg mentioned, the standard where this is, you know, your drone has to have internet connectivity, basically data, the ability to transmit the data and everything, so the law enforcement can see this. And also anybody that has a subscription to this can see some of the information, and we’ll get into the privacy aspects of this later, but this is the kind of overview of it. And then, secondly, is what they’re calling limited remote ID. And this is going to limit you on the connectivity and potentially some of the places you can actually fly. This is where you are. Your device that you’re flying or operating with is connected to the internet. The drone is not. So this is going to be limited. The third one here, which is, you know, basically you don’t have any, connectivity.

Damon Darnall (09:03):

In this particular one, you’re limited. This would be similar to AMA or special model fields that are designated to drones. These are basically drone airports. And these have been around for decades. In fact, one of the first organizations was actually founded around drones, where we had designated drone airports, and we flew drones around, and we had competitions and all kinds of stuff. And this happened 22 years prior to the FAA ever even being formed or considered. So a lot of this formed a lot of the aviation, so it’s going to limit us to those, but it’s going to greatly restricted on several levels. One, you’re limited to a 400 foot altitude, but also 400 feet of distance, which is not realistic, for a lot of the remote control or unmanned aircraft are being flown recreationally. The landing path that they need is greater than 400 feet for a lot of these things. So that’s the proposal that’s there. And then we’ll talk about that in a little more detail. Any other comments on that you guys would like?

Greg White (10:06):

Okay, real quick, I’d like to just add this. I mean, it right there you know, broadcast remote ID is out there. I mean, you can do that today, right? It’s like we don’t have to make a lot of changes to be able to do broadcast ID. You know the law enforcement can see our drones today. You know, government officials can see our drones today and we are transmitting with some drones, not all drones, but with some drones with broadcast today. So it’s not like this is some Farfetch system that we’re saying that we should do. Right? And there are solutions for all of these things that we’re talking about. And so we’re going to talk about some of those things today as well.

Damon Darnall (10:45):

Why don’t we, you know, transition into that, right? Because there are basically two types of systems that we can use is broadcast versus internet. Now, the NPRM here is you know, I guess, bias toward the internet based model, but they also mentioned that we can, you know, that broadcast is a viable option and it is something that’s a solution there. And, you know, to your point, Greg, you look at DJI, which is a drone manufacturer with over 80% of the drones flying in the United States are DJI drones. They already have this, they’ve proven it. They actually tested this and did demos of this product broadcast system just a few months ago. So it’s out, it’s in the majority of the drones flying around already. It’s, already a viable option and it ties in with what, you know, aviation has already. But for other reasons that doesn’t seem to be the direction that the FAA is pushing towards. And I’ve got my own personal beliefs on that. But what are some of your thoughts, the rest of you guys? What do you think, why are they pushing the internet based version so much?

Bobby Mims (12:01):

I don’t know necessarily man, I have a personal opinion that a lot of it has to do with the big industry where the aviation rule-making committee, the arc, which was made up of 75% of the members in law enforcement, telecommunications security technology, and only 7% were made up of primary drone businesses. We’re okay in on this. And they submitted their proposal that would include just the broadcast radio ID, and somewhere in the mix from the AR CS research this last summer, until this proposal was released in December, someone was able to promote it. And we all know how government has different people that would try to influence them to help line their pockets with more money. And I just have this feeling and belief that there’s big industry that’s involved that is encouraging the FAA to push this, because they think that there’s some money that can be made for third party industries that are possibly already out there. And they have a strong voice right now with our government and with our bureaucracies.

Greg White (13:29):

Yeah. I mean the big elephant in the room, Bobby, I think you’re exactly right. Is obvious that big industry in the use of drones for delivering packages and things like that. You know, that’s where maybe this rule-making that is proposed would fit -their lobbyists, you know? And so you know, I think that we could come up with another solution instead of worrying about beyond visual line- of-sight, which is a small sector of the drone world that you know. We can create this law in a different manner than what’s being proposed.

Damon Darnall (14:08):

Right. Yeah. And I totally agree. And I think that’s the fact that they put this committee together, like Bobby mentioned, you know, and then for the FAA to totally ignore the arcs suggestions and recommendations for how to do it. You know, that’s just a blatant shot in the dark there that they’ve got other reasons behind it. So, that brings up a couple other issues too, or other thoughts. So, you know, one of the concerns that came up is that this is really driven by safety. Ultimately, you know, it was one of the things that they’re really pushing and why this is so important. But the reality is, you know, that the drones are probably, well, not probably, they are without a shadow of the doubt, the safest technology ever in aviation history.

Damon Darnall (15:00):

I mean, we don’t have any other technology in aviation history that comes close to this, and just some, some numbers to put it in perspective for everybody, there’s 220,556 general aviation. And for higher aircraft that are flying around the United States, we have over 8 million drones flying around in the United States. Since basically this has been tracked, there are three reported drone collisions with aircraft and all three of these resulted in minor, minor damage, no fatalities, no injuries or anything, but with aviation, we can’t say the same, not even in the last year, we’ve got far more fatalities that has to do with aviation, you know, and the numbers, here we have 220,000 versus 8 million. I mean, it’s crazy to say that it’s really there. The safety argument just isn’t there because it just doesn’t exist. No,

Bobby Mims (16:01):

Yeah, it’s definitely in my opinion, about the ability to control. And as Greg said earlier, you know, with the different industries, that they have a huge stake in this, with the delivery and commerce and those types of things I would even sometimes say that they’re doing what they can do, to get rid of the small guy, to eliminate that impact or the ability for the small person, the small business owner to be flying in the skies because of concerns that they’re dreaming up. Whereas, you know, we have zero fatalities with drones and in the aircraft industry, that’s just unheard of. So it’s a bit frustrating, but we’ve got to not get frustrated. We’ve got to have a positive attitude and again, just come together as a good group, that is, have a strong voice, a guided voice, too, to help guide the government in the right direction.

Damon Darnall (17:08):

Yeah. And that’s a great point because they don’t know this is all uncharted territory. This is all new. This is a disruptive industry, which is awesome, and amazing, and incredible. And so there’s going to be a lot of this, where, you know, that comes up and this isn’t the first NPRM that we’ve had come up and it’s not going to be the last one there’s going to be, they’re going to be other ones as well.

Greg White (17:29):

I just want everybody to remember that. I mean, it’s like, you know, once you give up certain things, once you capitulate a certain amount, you’re always going to you, can’t give it, get it back. It’s just like privatization of our ATC system. Right? It’s like, once we start this process with USS stations and we’re paying , that’s going to just continue to go where we don’t want it to go. Right. So, it’s not a good idea to do that in my opinion.

Bobby Mims (17:58):

I agree! Yep! Totally, totally! Now some other things that come up, such as the legality, you know, is this even legal, you know, which spawns a couple of different other questions. One of them is, what is it? Yeah, 50 dot 1801 subsection one Oh one to foreign intelligence security act violation. Right?

Greg White (18:26):

Yeah. We don’t even understand that. I mean, there’s quite a few people that think that you know this internet based USS wifi, you know, signal is opera is breaching that law.

Bobby Mims (18:42):

And we don’t really know that yet. Right? And just for you who aren’t familiar with the law, it basically says that under this foreign intelligence surveillance act, it says the collection of domestic wire communications and radio communications from United States, citizens are prohibited, unless a person has a warrant to obtain such information. It has been issued by law enforcement. So that is exactly what this is proposing, but is going on. So that’s a big question, you know. And again, it’s something they probably didn’t think about, you know, when they were creating this.

Greg White (19:23):

What if it’s a minor, right? What if they’re under 18, there’s a lot of under 18 people flying drones, aren’t there, of course. Right? And so then you get into laws and regulations around you, tracking information on a minor. And I know there’s a lot of people talking about that, and I think it’s something to address and this an NPRM.

Bobby Mims (19:46):

One of the things that I’m concerned with about that is I think it’s a very valid argument but again, knowing how the government works and how they will probably approach this, is that they will probably ask you to sign a waiver of release in order to get a subscription, to fly under the standard or ID. And so, I mean, it’s just like, we give up a lot of our rights when we go through the airports and allow them to frisk us and do certain things that have some of us believe aren’t necessarily constitutional, but because we need to get from one place in our country to another, we go through that process. So I anticipate they will approach this in a way that would stay. If you’re going to choose to fly, just like drive your car, you have to have a driver’s license. You have to put a seatbelt on. Well, there are certain requirements that we’re going to have a view in order for you to fly in our airspace. 

Greg White (20:48):

That would be releasing information. So even though I think it’s a very valid point and something that we need to remind the government of, we need to be prepared as well, how to respond to, well, if you sign off your rights to be a part of this subscription with the USS. Yeah. And it doesn’t have to be. My point is,”Look, don’t do it because they say we need to do it.” Right? There’s a system in place today that works broadcast. So why give up this privacy and why give up this right? As a citizen, you know, not just because, you know, they say, we need you to know, let’s put up a fight. That’s what this notice for proposed rule-making is about. Let’s let them know how we feel about this, right? Absolutely!

Damon Darnall (21:30):

Yeah. It’s a huge thing. And that’s why, you know, I’m excited. You guys have tuned in the panels here to help, and support, and your guys’ passion for this, you know, this topic and for the industry, but for everyone listening. I mean, it’s super important that you guys, you know, that you guys actually let your voice be heard and let it known, you know, and a lot of you who are watching might be saying, “Well, you know, I’m just, I’m a hobbyist. I just do it for fun. It’s not that big a deal.” But it is! And I can tell you, you know, I’m a lifetime member with the AMA and I’ve been a member with them since 1976. And hey’ve done a lot for the industry. I’ve done a lot for aviation.

Damon Darnall (22:11):

They’ve done a lot for aeronautics you know. They’re just incredible! And in creating a place and a community to be able to foster aviation careers that have spawned from that. There’s, you know, industries, there’s all kinds of stuff that have come from that. And I think that what they’re basically trying to do is eliminate recreational flying altogether as the way this is worded. You know, one of the challenges with the free proposal and, you know, Bria is that’s the FAS recognized identification area. These are basically existing the drone fields. Remember I told you, we had these drone airports from, you know, 22 years prior to the FAA ever even being formed. Well, the way these typically work is that these drone fields are on the outskirts of town, you know, kind of in the undeveloped areas.

Damon Darnall (23:04):

And what happens as cities grow, then they expand. And what was out in the sticks is now getting to be the suburbs. So then those fields are bought out by developers and they build houses or buildings or commercial stuff. And now you move the field out, you know, the drone airport too, you know, now the new outside of town and in that happens every, you know, every decade or so, we seem to be relocating these airfields, but under this new proposal states that you have 12 months, once the proposal goes into effect, and then after those 12 months, you don’t have the ability for any new ones. So in essence, all the ones that are there are going to be gone, in short order, and there’ll be no other, no places to develop and build this up. And I remember being a young kid and, you know, doing this with, you know, with my dad, and this was a huge thing. This was what got me into aviation and my dad helped create everything that we’ve created. You know, it’s absolutely crazy.

Greg White (24:00):

I mean, I totally agree. I mean, listen, I want to be able to take my kid out, back in my backyard and fly in and introduce him to drone flight. And under this new law, I can’t do that. Unless there’s certain situations met. You know, I don’t even want to have to go to a Fria to fly my drone. You know, I think that there needs to be some solutions that we propose. I mean, I think that we should let you know, RC airplanes and hobbyists fly in class G airspace period, or what’s used land systems up and working, right? So why not use that system to do this? And let’s not take away the freedom of flight from being able to show our kids what flying a drone or an RC airplanes are all about. I mean, I remember that moment myself. It wasn’t that long ago, so I want to be able to continue to pass that down to our kids, you know.

Erik Wilhelmsson (24:58):

Absolutely! Awesome! Yeah! One big question then for everyone that’s listening is, you know, what’s the next action or what can they, what can we, do as a community and how do we, like, how can we comment on this? And I think Damon, you had a bit of, you know, a good tutorial on how to comment on that, leave your feedback, basically, you know, have our voices heard. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so to comment on it, there’s a couple of things and we’re going to give you guys some particular resources, and we’ll get everybody’s opinion on this, but, you know, the way I view it, we basically have three levels of commenting. One I think is, you know, first of all, when you comment, you have to be calm and, you know, give useful comments.

Damon Darnall (25:50):

And in specifically useful solutions, you can’t just say the FAA sucks. They’re ruined in aviation. You know, that’s not going to be beneficial for anyone, right? So you want to give them good, positive feedback. And I think the main four points to discuss with them, or to point out are business. You know how to do this, if this goes into its current form, if this goes into you know, a rule or a law, how’s this going to affect business? Now business is broad based, right? Because you have manufacturers that build drones. If the drone sales go from 8 million to a hundred thousand drone sales a year, or the consumer drone side, just dries up and disappears. You know, how does that affect manufacturers, resellers, you know, retailers, stores you know, how does that impact it and all the dealers?

Damon Darnall (26:38):

And then what about the people who operate commercially, you know, that drones for a living service based business, like everybody on this panel, they built a big successful business service with drone servicing you know, their clients, with a drone service industry that’s basically the one Oh seven, anything commercial you’d fly under one Oh seven, then that’s going to be dramatically affected. And then, not to mention the recreational side, all the manufacturers, and all the money, and everything generated, and stuff like that. So business is a huge one. Second is privacy. You know, that’s a huge deal with the privacy aspect of it. You know, we don’t want, you know, the way that it’s written is, well, technically only law enforcement in the FAA will have access to your information maybe.

Greg White (27:30):

Right? Can you imagine if, you know, this is going to work and we didn’t really talk about privacy, but I know you’re talking about how to respond to the rule-making, but real quickly on privacy. This is a big one for me! ‘Cause we’re out here in the field all the time and we, we feel this right. So with the USS service centers, there’s probably going to be an app right in the app. Anybody with a phone can download the app and you’re going to be able to just to see where the pilots are, where the remote pilots are, what their location is. That’s fine for law enforcement, for government officials and for security people, I get it. They need to know who we are. And by the way they do today, they can do that today.

Greg White (28:13):

That’s nothing new. But to have, you know, and I don’t mean this derogatory, but just anybody know where I am. I get people all the time, I’m going to shoot your drone down. What are you doing? Where are you flying? What’s what? What’s this all about? And maybe even becoming verbal or, you know, and with me, and I just don’t want that. There’s no reason why everybody needs to know where the pilot is at all times, unless they’re law enforcement or you know, government official. And I’m pretty adamant that privacy is very important to me. And I know it is to a lot of people.

Damon Darnall (28:51):

Yeah, absolutely!

Bobby Mims (28:52):

A hundred percent with that. There’s actually in part of the proposal, a way with the USS that you could actually apply for anonymity, or you would actually get an ID or a code that would not release your personal information, that personal information would only be available to law enforcement. Well, the problem with that is again, would that be an additional expense to have that anonymity option placed in there? So again, it’s like, number one, we need to hit that. We don’t need our personal identifiable information out there to the general public. And they’re number two. We don’t want to have to pay an extra amount of money in order to have that privacy. And number three, how is our personally identifiable information going to be protected by this USS, if it continues to go down that direction. So we’ve got to make sure that we’re aware of those options as well, or as those problems as well.

Damon Darnall (29:58):

Right? And, you know, the other point that has to do with that, if you pay the extra money and you have the privacy, it still transmits the exact location of your drone while it’s flying. That’s what I don’t like. Right? So anybody can come up and see you. Now, we don’t have this with automobiles. I mean, we have license plates on our cars, but if [inaudible], you know, you accidentally cut somebody off or while you’re driving and they got you and now they can basically get your information. I mean, that’s a scary thing. And you know, and especially because this industry is disruptive, and a lot of people aren’t educated about all the benefits and you know, all the good that drones do, you know, a lot of people just have, you know, they have a negative connotation with drones and, and you know, that we want it, we want to try and minimize that as much as possible and keep that at bay.

Damon Darnall (30:51):

So, you know, so the privacy thing, that’s another big thing. So these are the things we’re going to leave you guys with and give you some resources, but there’s basically kind of four points that we suggest, or that I’m suggesting, that you guys should comment on. So one of them is the business. Second is privacy. Third is for the recreational flying, you know, and this brings up another, we talked about it a little bit and how this is such a big deal all the way through with people in aviation and aeronautics and everything, but we didn’t talk about the legacy drone portion of it. And that is, you know, if you guys want to comment on that I’d love your feedback and to hear your thoughts on that.

Bobby Mims (31:30):

Yeah. I have a real problem with impacting the hobbyist because I really believe that it could have huge implications of truly restricting the development of new pilots, young people who, are passionate about aviation and aeronautics technicians with young kids wanting to build and put together their own aircraft and learning how to fly. So I really think that it will hamper that. And I think, to be honest with you, there’s a lot of money that drone business manufacturers of the actual drone and UAS equipment, that money that goes from the hobby is to help support the new technologies that are coming out of these industry giants, or even new drone companies, could be impacted and have a real negative effect on the drone industry. 

Greg White (32:30):

Be clear the way it sits now for the rule-making, that is, the way the rule is written. The legacy groans are not going to be able to work.

Greg White (32:40):

For the broadcast or internet based remote ID. So they don’t meet the ANSI standard for a serial number. And I don’t know, Bobby, if you’ve got more on that, but basically the drones that we have today, you know, people are not sure if they’re going to be able to be retrofit or with some kind of a piece of equipment or hardware, but I don’t think that’s gonna work because the drone serial numbers have to meet a certain ANSI standard. So we’re going to have to have all new drones, you know, and that’s a big deal, you know, for people, I think.

Bobby Mims (33:16):

Yeah. I agree, Greg, kinda to address that the FAA is approaching it as, as a number one, drones manufacturers would be able to upgrade with firmware updates, but that has not been proven yet, and it hasn’t been tested yet. And then the other approach is that the FAA has put in their document that they believe the life of a drone is only three years. So that by the time this rule is set in place and made law, that the drones that we are operating today would basically be obsolete anyway. So that’s the approach they’re going to take.

Damon Darnall (33:56):

Yeah. And I have a real problem with that too, because, yeah, theoretically that’s the average, but some people keep drones a lot longer, you know, like some of the people who are operating drones, as we know it, you know, like multi rotors. Let’s just take something like a DJI Phantom, three standard that shoots in raw, you can get some amazing bats and inexpensive drones, but that’s kind of an outdated drone. A lot of people still use that to this day. What happens if you buy a drone two years from now, still within the three years, that drone is only a couple of months old, but it’s not up to spec with the new hardware and software. And that’s the other challenge I have with their update scenario. We’re talking about hardware, the ability to actuallybroadcast data, you know, on an internet based system and actually have data that, you know, is a service plan. And that has to be, you know, that’s hardware equip stuff. It’s not going to be just an easy plug and play system.

Greg White (34:55):

I agree. I’ll give you an example, real life example, right? So let’s say a I’m growing my drone business and Hey, this is going well. I want to get into doing inspections. Well, I need thermal. Thermal is expensive, guys. And let’s say, I go out and buy a new mattress, you know, 400, whatever the model is, it comes out, you know, that’s expensive with a new XTE camera, XT, three camera and on it and all that. Well, another option would be to go, and a lot of guys do this today. I’m going to go get an inspire one that’s two and a half years old, or three years old, Damon, you can help me with that and put an X T camera on it. It works great then no longer are you going to be able to do that. And I know a lot of people running an inspire one with an XT camera on it. Right?

Damon Darnall (35:37):

I can’t do that in the future. Yeah. And that’s four years old now that was released in January, 2016. So it has a place in a certain situation. Right?

Bobby Mims (35:48):

And then there are those of us who take, because we believe in redundancy, we take two drones with us to do a job just in case there’s a failure with one. And yeah, I’d take a Maverick pro a platinum along with my Maverick pro too. And I’ve never had to use it, but having it there brings that security and that would help. That would eliminate being able to do that in case you would have to buy a whole new drone system.

Damon Darnall (36:17):

  1. Yeah. So those are all great points. And again, these are things that we would encourage you guys to include in your comments that you do. And then the fourth point is basically that internet based versus a broadcast and the broadcast is it, if it’s up to me, it’s a no brainer. There’s no reason to come up with new technology. You know, it hasn’t been proven yet isn’t developed and won’t work with any of the old stuff. It’s just, it seems like you know, a really complicated overpriced solution to a problem that we already have a solution for. It’s free and already in the majority of all the drones that are flying and can easily be firmware and software updated. So totally, totally. I think that’s it, and the focus here is, when you make your comments, is to provide resolutions and solutions. So don’t just say an internet based system sucks. 

Damon Darnall (37:16):

Just say you have a solution for it, which is a broadcast system. You know, what you don’t like about the internet based system, some of these other challenges there and how the broadcast solution solves a problem and the broadcast system works today. Right? And it does solve the problem. When I fly my Patrice two, 10, 200, either one of them I’ve got ASB, which is, you know, a broadcast system. And I can see aircraft in flash across my screen, right. That technology is there, you know, we just need to implement that technology and other drones. So one thing we should do is identify what is exactly the difference between internet based and broadcast based. So Greg, you wanna tackle that and remember that that standard remote ID includes both broadcast and internet, internet endpoint, and then limited is just internet. So let’s talk about what that means. What are the differences between the two? So for broadcast remote ID or broadcasts, where the drone has the information, right. And it’s transmitting from the drone directly to that information it’s giving lat-long, it’s giving all the information location serial number, all that information is being broadcast directly. Okay. For internet based that information is coming from the drone to the pilot remote, and then being transmitted through USS service centers through cellular or internet.

Bobby Mims (38:36):

 Okay. So it’s wifi or cellular internet service. That’s transmitting that information. So either the drone directly or through the internet, if that makes sense. Awesome. Absolutely. And one of the parts of the problem with that is it creates one more step, or several more options that could go wrong. I mean, there are a lot of things. And one of the biggest things is cybersecurity vulnerabilities with all the drones that would be in the air with a USS, having to process all that information, and then being able to protect it and secure. That information from cybersecurity issues would be a huge ordeal to try and overcome.

Greg White (39:24):

Great point, Bobby, because you’re dealing with third parties, guys, this is not just one government agency, right? When we get into USS, we’re dealing with third parties that obviously have standards, they have to uphold too, but you know, it’s just another level of security. That’s a real good point, Bobby.

Damon Darnall (39:43):

Yeah. And we, and again, we want to try and eliminate that, you know, that from happening where we’re dealing, we’re relying on you know, a third private party service, because if something goes down, if there’s a problem, I mean, this could hamper or, you know, basically eliminate the ability for your drone to be able to get airborne and take off. And that could essentially, you know, that could result in a lot of drones being used for lifesaving missions now. We’re going to have more and more of those in the future. So you know, that’s something to keep in mind, you know, consider in this whole process. The other thing that I want to bring up too, with that, as we’re talking about, you know, the drones that are going to be flying and, the subscriptions and what’s what you have to get, there’s a lot of confusion around using some of these, these smaller drones.

Damon Darnall (40:37):

So this is a little Maverick mini right here. So this one falls under the 250 gram rule. So you don’t have to register this drone. And so, you know, I wasn’t really sure if this drone has a place in the world, but then I’m a big fan of it. It’s a good little drone. But there’s some confusion around the commercial application. So if you are under this new rule, if the way it’s written goes through and this drone does not have to be, you know, you don’t have to register it and it doesn’t have to be equipped with this RFID, which means it’s basically exempt from it as long as you’re flying recreationally. Now, if you’re flying commercially, then all that is different. If you’re a one Oh seven pilot and using this to fly commercially, you do have to register it. And it does fall under the requirements of the RFID. So I just want to make sure that that’s cleared up for everybody, ’cause this isn’t necessarily going to be a solution the way that it’s written now.

Damon Darnall (41:41):

If you’re operating commercially, then you’ll have to go by those rules,

Greg White (41:46):

Great point! And you can imagine the manufacturers probably in the future, aren’t going to make those small drones or ID accessible units, you know, so if you can’t use them for one Oh seven period, you know, you could point. Exactly. Yeah. And we’ll probably see a big push on manufacturers. If this or some version of this goes through, a huge line of consumer drones under the 250 gram rule would be the only way that the recreational side of this could survive and, you know, not thrive, but at least survive. Yeah.

Bobby Mims (42:23):

There were some turning statements in regard to the smaller below 0.5, five drones that the FAA put in this document that was concerning to me is looking at weight-based versus just being in the air, so they could change that as well. So we need to be aware and stay on top of that, stay up to date to that as well. 

Damon Darnall (42:50):

Yeah. And there’s so much, I mean, again, we’re at the beginning stages of this disruptive industry and the rules and laws and everything that’s there, but the fact that basically a drone this size, or you go one size up to like a little ma DGI Maverick air or something, or, you know, a little parrot and a 40 or a 54 pound drone are basically considered the same class is just absolutely ridiculous. That would be like saying, you know, a bicycle and an 18 Wheeler and are in the same category for operation. From a safety standpoint, it’s just, it’s just totally different, but it’s a different, different topic for a different radio show then. So let me show you guys really quick, how to do this. So what you’re going to actually do.

Damon Darnall (43:37):

So we’ll provide you guys the link so you can go there, but this is the you’re going to go to the FAA site under the UAS remote identification. And then what you’re going to do is just scroll down here. And when you get down here, it’s got under the notice of proposed rulemaking right here. There’s a link and the actual docket number. So you’re going to copy this docket number here, and then you just click on a link and it’s going to take you to the comment section here now, as you can see, we’ve got several comments. So we’ve gotten just in the last 90 days, over 5,000 comments that have already come through. And I just want to make a point, that’s not enough. It’s not new, or now you’re out there, guys. We’ve got to make our voice heard!

Damon Darnall (44:22):

Absolutely. Because I think about it, there are 8 million drones out there with somewhere between 1.3 at 1.7 million drone pilots. And you know, just the AMA alone has over 200,000 members. A lot of the FPV racing organizations have, you know, literally tens of thousands of members and we only have 5,000 comments. So first of all, this has to be done. You have to submit your comment by March 2nd of this year. Okay. So you’re going to follow these links. You click on, you paste it in a search there, and it’s going to bring up right here where you comment. Okay. So you’re going to click over here on this comment. Now click on that. And then this is going to open up the comment section where you can post your comment and you put your information in here. Now, a couple of points I want to make about this.

Damon Darnall (45:12):

Number one, you can comment as basically as many times as you want, and you can comment on separate topics. So I think it’s a really, it’s really important to do that. If you’re serious about this, that you comment on the different points, instead of writing one big comment, that’s going to be really long comment to the, you know, to the safety aspect of it, comment to the manufacturer’s aspect of it. You know, because on the business side, you’ve got the manufacturers and the dealers and the, and the retailers and then on a commercial operator side, if you’re a one Oh seven pilot and you do this for a living or you aspire to, or want to do this for a living comment on how that could affect you there, the privacy, you know, in some of these other points we have, and we’ll give you, we’ll provide you a list of these that you can do, but I think it would be beneficial if they were commented on by, you know, if everybody would comment on submit anywhere from three to five comments on there. Right?

Greg White (46:11):

I think that’s a great idea. It’s Nope. Don’t think you have to put everything in one box. Right? And I just want to add a couple of things right here. And while we’re talking about the beginning of the comments that this, you know, I represent our industry as a professional you know, this is a big deal. And if you are flying drones for a living, then, you know, you need to represent and you know, fill in your name, you know, as an angry American, you know, or whatever, you know, and worry about it, please be serious about it, put your name in there. And, let them know how you feel about it. And we’re gonna, like Damon said, we’re going to come up with some, you know, some bullet points, some overview topics that’ll help you out with our guide that we give out.

Greg White (46:56):

We want to make it so that it’s easy for you to make it personal. And we’re going to do that. We’re going to remind you of this podcast. And some of the solutions that we think are out there and you can build your own opinion. But the last thing is, you know, we’ve got to share this, we’ve got to get our community taking action. So we, if we know drone pilots and we’re going to have to, you know, forward this to them and get them to comment and give it to your neighbor, and what do we do after this is done? Right? So after we make these comments, write a letter to your Congressman, you know, don’t just make the comment and be done. Let’s everybody know how the drone industry feels about this and let your neighbor, who’s not a drone operator, know about it, you know, and anybody can comment. Right? So, we’ll put it in a package that it’s easy for you to explain and easy for you to use.

Bobby Mims (47:55):

A hundred percent!

Damon Darnall (47:57):

Perfect. Awesome. All right. Well, I know we could talk about this for hours and hours and hours, and I could talk to you guys about drones and new business development and this amazing industry for four days or years, which is really cool, but we’ll go ahead and wrap this up. If you guys have any other additional questions, or you know comments or concerns, you know, feel free to let us know, and any closing thoughts, or comments, from you guys.

Bobby Mims  (48:30):

And this is a great opportunity for us to have a huge impact on our industry, unless you miss it. Be engaged, get as educated as you possibly can with the time that you have utilize the resources that are going to be provided to you. Please take the time to do it, take the time to share and pressure your friends who are drone pilots, even realtors you have relationships with, or other business partners. Share with them saying, “Please help us make a comment, help us save the industry to make it better.” But keep it from being so restrictive that we can’t really function within the guidelines. And it creates a huge impact. ‘Cause I know if, if it impacts me financially, it’s going to impact the realtors and others financially. So please take the time. And man, we appreciate you guys so much!

Greg White (49:22):

Yeah. I just want to thank everybody for joining us on this podcast. It’s, really fun to be able to collaborate with successful drone entrepreneurs and the drone boss with the sky network. Thank you so much! What a wealth of knowledge we’ve got right there on that screen and in that group of people. And we like to hear what you think about this. We would love to see comments as we forward these on to our friends. And if we can answer questions, we certainly will do that. So thank you for joining us on this podcast from Greg white here as drone opener.

Damon Darnall & Erik Wilhelmsson (50:03):

And Eric, you got any closing thoughts there. Yeah. Just make sure if you have any specific questions that you’d like for us to address on our next podcast, just put them in the comments below and make sure to subscribe if you liked it. If you have anything else, you know, that you want us to cover, please feel free. Yep. And check these guys out. So again, we threw a lot at you. We’re going to give you some resources to follow up and, you know, bottom line, the main takeaway is you, you have to comment, you have to take action. You have to let your voice be heard. And ideally, there are three ways to do it. Number one, you can basically create your own response and do that. That’s going to be the best second.

Damon Darnall (50:48):

We’re going to provide you with some templates. So if you would take these templates and personalize them a little bit, so basically don’t just cut and paste them, but actually put in your story, your thoughts, you know, and your opinions in there, but this will give you the foundation and should accelerate the process. And third, if you’re just on the fence and you’re like, I don’t have time to write it. I don’t have time to read it. I don’t have time to comment, at least copy and paste the templates and at least post those, if nothing else, that’s going to be like signing a petition. And that’s going to be another little you know, a little quill in the feather there. That’s going to give us many more voices, that much more interest that’s there. So again, follow that, please, please, please be sure and comment on this. This is super important, for this time in our industry, as it grows and develops. Again, thank you for tuning in. We look forward to talking to you guys next time, and to this amazing panel that’s here, guys. It’s just great to see you and you guys, you know, you all take care. Thank you!

Damon Darnall (51:55):

Hey, thanks for checking out this video. Make sure to subscribe, hit the like button and let me know what kind of videos you’d like to see on this channel. Hit me up in the comments. I’d love to connect with you. I’m also touring around the country, holding live drone events called drone command live. You should come check it out. It will absolutely blow your mind. Thanks for watching the channel, helping drone entrepreneurs go farther, faster and more profitable in their drone businesses until next time, take care and fly safe.

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